Ricoh GXR: Straps

Archive

On this page, I collect replies that I received and my own experiences regarding straps and bags, when my GXR fell to the ground two times within a year. I report the incidents themselves elsewhere and focus on comments and solutions here. I rearranged the postings and e-mails independently of their chronological order.

You can find details about the falls and the resulting discussions at:

My Website: www.waloszek.de/gxr_exp2_e.php#robust (camera fell mid April 2011)
Ricohforum: ricohforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6131
Dpreview Ricoh forum: forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1013&message=38197972
My Website: www.waloszek.de/gxr_exp2_e.php#robust2 (camera fell end of September 2010)
Ricohforum: ricohforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=5328
Dpreview Ricoh forum: forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1013&message=36530216

Moreover, I received a number of personal e-mails with suggestions.

Note: If anyone who has been included in this page does not agree with being included (or the photos included), please let me know and I will delete the respective passages/photos.

Update: At the end of 2013, I bought a Peak Design shoulder/wrist strap bundle. I expected this combo to minimize the risk of the camera falling down and so it did. See page Peak Design Straps for more information.

Empathy and Opinions about Wrist Straps, Neck Straps, and Bags...

I received quite a number of sympathetic posts and mail, in which the senders also expressed their opinions about straps and bags:

BG_CX3_DPREVIEW: Hi Gerd, happy ending after all, maybe its time to pack that jewel into a decent case...
Harold66 : Hello Gerd, Glad you did not break it - also another reason not to use a neckstrap which does not make sense AFAIC for a small camera like this.
ZDP-189: I think you need to add a better strap. Thanks for the heads-up.
thelps: Hi Gerd, Sorry about the breakage. I have a Nikon strap I will send you that I am not using. The only issue with the Nikon strap I offer you is it has metal tabs that the strap feeds through and could scratch the camera or screen while the camera is in a bag - this is why I don't use it, but if it suits you I will gladly post it. The Ricoh one appears to have plastic guides as per your photos.
GuidoWongolini: I always replace the OEM straps with Artisan&Artist silk cord. Never a problem, even with my M8.
Mainiac (reply to Guido Wongolini): Excellent idea since Gerd's experience included having the snubbers that come with the OEM strap. I will use Popflash as the source of a new strap! Good insurance especially if you are in a city or looking over a cliff! Thanks for the warning and discussion. This is when the forum is really helpful in sharing experience and ideas.
andrewteee: I guess the GXR/P10 does not have enough weight to create tension on the strap, tension that would hold it tight. I tend not the use neck straps anyway, preferring to just hold them in hand or stash them in a bag. But then again, hand holding without a strap is also a risk. BTW your idea for the solution is fantastic (I presume, this refers to my proposal; I also agreed to the "weight" assumption in a reply).
Raul Ocampo: My camera falling from a loose strap is a nightmare for me so what I did with my GXR is use a Nikon wrist strap meant for small cameras. It was about $6 from Amazon.com. When I'm not using my GXR I keep it in a Lowepro digital camera case.

All in all, opinions and preferences seem to vary. Some users prefer wrist straps, a few use neck straps, and many have a bag for stowing the camera away. While I used a wrist strap at times, I prefer a neck strap, because I want to have my hands free when walking around (until last year, I also needed my hands for walking sticks, because of my bad hips...). I always dream of a bag that can be opened instantly, but did not yet find a suitable one (no zippers, please...). At the current state, having the camera in a bag means not using it...

Alternative: The Ricoh ST-3 Neck Strap

I also had an exchange with godfrey regarding a better neck strap: He proposed and bought the Ricoh ST-3 neck trap made of leather.

Godfrey: I've not had problems with securing the neckstrap on mine: it hasn't slipped at all since I first assembled it on April 29th. But I don't like the neckstrap much: the edges of the strap where it contacts my neck are very rough and uncomfortable. I've been looking into alternatives. I'd like a soft cloth or leather strap, it needs to be strong enough but the camera isn't terribly heavy to warrant something big and bulky.

The end parts where the strap loops through the camera lugs are an unusual 5/16" (.313" or 7.5mm) size, the common 3/8" (.375" or 9.5mm) webbing used on most replacement straps is too wide to fit properly. I found a six-foot leash intended for a small dog which uses this size webbing as a source and will modify a suitable neckstrap to use it. I don't think I'll need it to be adjustable at all, so the ends will be pinned in place once fitted and sized properly.

addendum: I just noticed that there is a Ricoh ST-3 leather strap available from both B&H and Popflash. Looks nice: all leather aside from the attachment ends, lined all the way through the length. That's what I was hoping to make.. Not cheap ... $39 ... but it's probably cheaper than anything of equal quality I can construct. And better quality. I ordered one.

My reply: Thank you for your posts. I guess the size issue is due to the small size of the GXR body - you can't have all... I also realized that Ricoh offers another, better neck strap, but I was somehow unwilling to pay another 40 or more Euros for a better strap. At the time I bought the body, it was pretty expensive - so why did they include a poor strap so that you have to buy another, better one eventually? I guess that is marketing... (and I hate that!)

addendum: A negative comment on the ST-3 (sorry): While it is made of leather in the middle, the ends are the same as for the included strap - so no improvements regarding falls (but you can thread it the Nikon/Panasonic way for more safety...).

Godfrey's reply: I kind of agree that for the cost of a GXR body plus A12 camera unit, a good leather strap should be included, but then again no one else does it either. With the P10 camera unit, the price is closer to a high-end point and shoot (about $600) ... and most of those only come with a cheezy wrist strap and no neckstrap lugs. At least a leather neckstrap is available!

No need to be sorry. Yes, the ends have to be of pretty much the same construction as the in-box strap ... the size of the slots in the body dictate that. It's pretty much what I was going to make. As I said, mine (threaded the way they show in the instruction manual) hasn't budged at all since I put it together in April. And the camera's gotten plenty of use hanging around my neck. Once the new strap is here, I'll likely thread it the Nikon way or just pin it so it can't possibly slip, it's not a big deal. It's just unfortunate that yours did slip and caused the camera to hit the ground.

Godfrey after arrival of the strap: The Ricoh ST-3 leather neck strap I ordered last week arrived today and, I have to say, it exceeds my expectations. Soft leather lined with micro-fiber cloth, very supple even brand new. Well worth the $40 price tag, it's like a premium watch band in a neck strap context.

I threaded it with the Nikon routing shown here - so it is very secure and very very comfortable.

Proposals for Improvement

Here, I list proposals for improvement that I received as well as my own proposal.

Combined Wrist and Neck Strap

eidiacc: Problem with this camera is that the hole for attaching the strap is really small as compared with normal cameras, i.e. DSLR straps won't fit. And the straps for small cameras just don't seem to be able to hold the weight of the GXR, especially with A12 50mm. After browsing in the market for quite some times, I am now using something like this.

Photos by eidiacc (click photo for larger version)

The attachment parts can go on both sides of the camera (like the original strap), or go on the right side (like how I have been using it). I have been using it this way because I can transform it for carrying around the neck or holding by hand.

At first the thin string worried me a bit, but I have been using it for quite some time and I am pretty certain that it will not come off easy.

Burning the Cut Ends

Relacks: Personally I also use the double back method, but after the strap has been slightly shortened. I then burn the "cut ends" with a match or something, and that melts the strap and leaves a rough end which does not slide through the 'keeper ' so readily. Tony.

Sewing the Strap End Down

Rob13: ... Ok if that doesn't help (his proposals regarding snubbers etc.) then perhaps its just the intensity of your hiking and the camera is swinging out quite a bit with a considerably amount of movement. If so you'll need to consider sewing the strap end down so it never comes undone.

My own Ideas - Proposal for a Fix

Here is a "prototypical" proposal from me for a fix - a stopper that is attached to both ends of the neck strap:

Comment

Proposals like those from Relacks and Rob13 are definitely effective but are also "one way" solutions - they cannot be undone or are hard to remove. I always favored a solution in the spirit of eidiacc's, but I was too lazy to explore it any further. The same is regrettably true for my own proposal...

How to Attach the Neck Strap Correctly...

The Nikon Way...

ktel99: I am attaching a pic of the way I secure my straps (following the instructions from one single Nikon "instruction sheet" that came with the strap of a refurbished FM3a, go figure...). The trick is to loop the end inside and exactly in the opposite direction most manuals suggest. I think the weight of the camera cannot get the thing undone. Attaching the strap (or adjusting its length) is a pain, but it is secure.

Photo by ktel99

The Panasonic Way...

Richard Parkin: Hi Gerd, Sorry to read in dpreview and on your blog about your problem with the strap on your GXR. I think the instructions for fitting the strap given in the GXR manual are wrong and the strap is bound to fail, as you have found. That kind of strap is usually threaded through the buckle in a different way so that the end is trapped when the strap is tightened. I attach the illustration for fixing a similar strap which is taken from the Panasonic Lumix G1 user guide.

Download the instructions page in PDF format (scalable) (similar to the Nikon way)

The Ricoh Way...

Personally, I am not fully convinced that one or the other way of threading the strap through the buckle is superior - at least according to my brief tests. Nevertheless, I will go for the Panasonic/Nikon solution for a while. However, to make things clearer for the visitors of this site, I also include the Ricoh instructions:

Download the instructions page ii in PDF format (scalable)

One more Comment

John Driggers: I have a GXR A12/28 on order so I have been trolling the forum. I was alarmed by your post and clicked through to your web site. I looked at the instructions on the Ricoh PDF you posted there and the photo of your strap on your site.

After looking at those, I was not surprised that your strap loosened. The Ricoh instructions are clearly incorrect. The tail of the strap must go UNDER the main strap - not OVER as shown in the Ricoh illustration. It is the weight of the camera pulling the main strap snug in the buckle that holds the tail in place.

As shown in the Ricoh instructions and your photos - there is really nothing keeping the tail from sliding through the buckle and your camera falling if the tail goes OVER the main strap.

Snubbers - Do they Really Help?

With regards to the snubbers, I received two reactions, one from mainiac and another one from Rob13.

Mainiac: Hi Gerd, Thanks for the strap warning. I pulled on my strap but it would not budge. This may be because it has two added snubbers, one for each end. It came with these on the strap (see photo attached).

Photo by mainiac (modified; click photo for larger version)

Rob13: Hi there, I noted 2 small differences which might help? From page ii of the owner's manual there appear to be 2 differences between their picture and yours.

Firstly you appear to be missing the missing 2 plastic "strap eyelets" (guide clasps) which go in between the camera and the "clips" (locking buckle). What happened you those 2 little "strap eyelets"? They may help to reduce the camera strap pressure/movement on the locking buckle when the camera sways on the strap?
Secondly is the distance between the "clips" (locking buckle) and the camera. I noticed yours is placed very close the the camera body to give you a bit more strap length. Just a thought but, although I'm not a physics major, this location also can reduce the effectiveness of the "clips" since there is insufficient tension on the strap before it enters the "clips" (locking buckle).

My replies in short: Originally, I had those "snubbers", too - and indeed, the two plastic parts are missing now. But I lost them, one during each crash: The first time, I could not find it anymore between the rocks, the second time, I simply forgot to look for it. So while Rob13 rightfully mentioned that the snubbers help reduce the pressure, in my case, the strap went loose at an end with snubber attached. Obviously, the snubbers did not help much in my case...With regard to Ron13's second argument, I am unsure whether that really makes a difference. It could indeed if the body and the buckle touch because they are too close together.

Conclusions

So while I agree that the snubbers should help, I cannot confirm this from my experiences. At the first crash, I had both snubbers attached, and at the second one, the end with attached snubber got loose... All in all, I lost one snubber during each crash and have to find out now where to get new ones....

Building a Cheap Wrist Strap (Tom Caldwell)

For people who prefer a wrist strap, Tom Caldwell's post in the Ricoh forum at dpreview for building a cheap wrist strap should be of great interest. Therefore, I include it here (with his approval):

TC: Quite a few years ago I decided neck straps were for the birds and sore necks. So my cameras only have wrist straps. Not so messy when you put them away either.

For a while I bought commercial wrist straps but then I figured that they were easy to make. My current MkIII version is suitable smooth braided cord from a ladies sewing shop bought for not much by the metre. Cut a suitable length fold it in two and knot it. Feed it through the camera carry loops (you have to get the right cord to fit through here - a bent paper clip "hook" can help) and slip it back through itself to fix it. I make the right wrist strap a little longer and put a small piece of plastic tube over the doubled cord which if it slides with a little resistance can be used to lock the strap to your wrist.

When I am not using the camera it comes off my wrist and into a carry bag or belt bag. But make sure you zip up your Lowepro backpack! The fine type of cord I use is not difficult when storing, folds easily into bags and is scratch proof having no metal or plastic parts.

If they ever fray they are easy to replace and the whole setting up takes little time and it is very cheap. There are no adjusting clips to come off and you make the strap to the exact size that suits you.

In a second post, Tom added:

Gerd my ideas are simple, usable and unpatentable. If they can help anyone feel free (to publish them).

Methods of attaching cameras to prevent dropping and provide ease of use are very personal and what works for me will not necessarily work for others.

Having a wrist strap can be a bother and on my dslr gear I have very stout straps that are strong enough to let the camera "dangle" for a short period whilst I use both hands.

Energetic movements with a dslr equipped with battery pack and large lens are not recommended with the gear hanging from your wrist but I have done this when I have needed to use both hands for a short while quite a few times without disaster so far.

Will post up some images to show how I personally have tackled the problem.

So, I am waiting for Tom's photos...

Further "Fall" Experiences, Thoughts, Suggestions...

Here I collect some more feedback that I received, including from "fellow sufferers":

Tom Caldwell: Gerd, Bad news about your camera drops and good news that you have received good support. I had a similar story when I opened my Lowepro backpack in the boot of the car and neglected to zip it up again. On returning home picked up the bag and an EOS body and lens did a backflip out of the bag on to solid concrete. Luckily the lens hood was on and protected the lens but the impact dislodged something inside the camera and it needed a factory repair. Cosmetically it was a scratched lens hood only so I guess I was lucky as the lens was worth more than the body.
odklizec (after first fall): Ouch that must hurt Gerd! Good to hear the camera survived the fall and that your heart started to beat again! I'm curious what neck strap did you use? The string just broke or what? (one end slipped out)
odklizec (Nov 2010): Well, I'm joining the "I dropped the GXR" club! Yesterday, I somehow managed to drop the GXR with attached A12 50 and EVF from about 1m onto the wooden floor. 1m sounds like a small height. However, the hit was so hard that the 50mm disconnected from the body and slided next 2 meters before it stopped sliding by hitting the wall! As you can imagine, my hearth skipped several beats. I examined both body and module for traces of impact and because I found nothing visible, I slided the module into the body and with all my fingers crossed, turned the camera ON. Believe or not, it works and I see no performance difference. It seems both body and lens survived the crash without any (visible) consequence! Silly (but lucky) me...
As far as I remember, this was the first time I dropped the camera? I hope this was also the last time? Well, most probably not. Next week, I should receive the G700 and I'm planning to perform some very cruel durability tests with it, including handing the camera to Lucia or even bathing it. I'm really curious how durable is this Ricoh and how much it will survive?
odklizec (after second fall): Poor camera. But it's nice to see it survived your second attempt to disassemble it! Now you have a very good excuse to buy another body when (if) there will be introduced new body? I think it's only a question of very short time. My guess is Autumn this year together with M-mount module. Let's wait and see... (I don't think that I will buy a new body - but who knows...)
mikeyjuggler: Good news that it can take a little rough and tumble, it's such a lightweight but so well made.
eidiacc: I have got the same experience but luckily the camera didn't fall, only the original strap came off itself.
Wiener: Gerd, you have my sympathies. My GXR strap has also lost its grip, though so far only once. It very nearly hit the asphalt; I caught it on the way down (I was not that fast...). I find it annoying that with otherwise such an well thought out design, that the strap/strap attachment is somehow not adequate for the task. I do think it is up to Ricoh to come up with a solution although I think you are most wise to take what precautions you can in the meantime!
Godfrey: Hi Gerd, I missed your neckstrap post somehow. Sorry to hear you have had two drops because of it.

Side Topic: The Battery Holder

Schaki: Sorry to hear and see about this. Is that yellow pin needed to keep the battery pushed against its contacts in the camera? Or is it enough just to shut the battery-door? If not, you might add something to put between the battery and the door to give it a slight push against the contacts so that the camera can be used.
I lost that darned yellow pin for one of my two Ricoh 400G wide (Is based on the G4 wide) some time ago but it still works with the DB-43 battery as the door keeps the battery pushed towards the contacts.
joelypolly: Unfortunately when I dropped my GXR the little orange clip holding the battery broke. But otherwise it's still working perfectly.
tolomea: Incidentally the battery clip on my GXR broke as well and that was without a notable fall. I suspect it's just not strong enough for the mass of the battery. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be required to ensure good contact.

Comment

I once dropped my wife's Caplio R5. In this case, I was lucky in that Ricoh repaired the damage at not cost. In the case of the GXR body, I was lucky in two respects: Firstly, a repair was not really necessary, because the battery was secured when the compartment door was closed. Secondly, the battery holder was repaired "automatically", when my GXR body got new body parts. Finally, the holder seems to break even without a fall...

Some Faint Remembrances...

Coming to an end of this page, I can recall that I dropped my cameras already in the old analog days. In 1997, I dropped my Canon A1 with 28-200 zoom at Zabriskie point in Death Valley. Luckily, I had my 50mm lens with me (and did not use the zoom any longer, because that would have resulted in lots of fuzzy images, although that was not evident in the viewfinder...), and I could also buy a replacement zoom in Las Vegas soon after the fall (although with a smaller range at the tele end).

Another drop happened in a castle or museum - a cannot remember the place any more. At that time, I used a sturdy wrist strap that a friend of ours had built and given me as a present. Regrettably, however, the snap hook was not as sturdy as the strap - it simply broke in two...

Conclusions

First of all, I am not the only person who dropped his camera - many others reported that they faced the same fate. Some of them were lucky, and the camera was more or less unharmed after the fall or they could catch it before the fall, some had to send the camera for repair. I have already experienced both and also seem to be a consistent dropper...

The most positive aspect of this, however, is that I received a lot of empathy and suggestions for improvement from the photo community... Thumbs up for the Ricoh - and not only the Ricoh - camera community!